EXCLUSIVE: Jack Smith WARNS Nicolle about unprecedented attacks on rule of law in FIRST interview

[0:01] I stand by my decisions as special counsel, including the decision to bring charges against [0:07] President Trump. Our investigation developed proof beyond a reasonable doubt that President [0:13] Trump engaged in criminal activity. If asked whether to prosecute a former president based [0:20] on the same facts today, I would do so regardless of whether that president was a Democrat or a [0:26] Republican. No one, no one should be above the law in this country, and the law required that [0:34] he be held to account. So that is what I did. Hi again, everybody. It's now five o'clock here in [0:40] Washington, D.C. This show, Deadline White House, debuted the day that Donald Trump fired Jim Comey. [0:47] He fired him for refusing to look the other way in the Mike Flynn case, among other actions that [0:53] Donald Trump viewed as annoying and disloyal. Since that first broadcast, we have endeavored to [0:58] chronicle Donald Trump's vicious war against the rule of law in our country. And no one understands [1:04] what Trump's attacks against the rule of law look like better than that man, former special counsel [1:10] Jack Smith. So much of what we know about Donald Trump's efforts to undo his defeat in the 2020 [1:16] presidential election against Joe Biden and his mishandling of some of the country's most sensitive [1:21] national security secrets is because of the tireless work of Jack Smith and his team. [1:27] More than anyone else in the country, he represented a threat to Donald Trump because he followed the [1:33] facts and they let him deep inside Donald Trump's government and political coalition. The facts [1:40] revealed crimes and those crimes were serious enough to represent a very real risk of conviction [1:46] at trial for Donald Trump. That's the standard to indict somebody. And because of that fact, [1:53] Donald Trump has called Jack Smith horrible things, a quote, thug, a scoundrel, a criminal and a sick [1:59] man. And we could actually go on and on, but we don't want to waste our time that way. Trump has [2:04] threatened to prosecute him. And Jack Smith has made clear that he was just doing his job. He would do [2:10] it all over again if given the chance. In his letter to Attorney General Merrick Garland delivering his [2:16] final report, he writes this, quote, the claim from Mr. Trump that my decisions as a prosecutor were [2:22] influenced or directed by the Biden administration or other political actors is, in a word, laughable. [2:28] While we were not able to bring the cases we charged to trial, I believe the fact that our team stood [2:33] up for the rule of law matters. I believe the example our team set for others to fight for [2:39] justice without regard for the personal costs matters. The facts as we uncovered them in our [2:45] investigation and as we set forth in my report matter. That's where we start the hour. Joining us [2:51] for his first interview, former special counsel, Jack Smith. Thank you so much for doing this. [2:54] Thank you so much for having me. [2:55] I asked you this when you walked in, and I'll ask you, how weird is it to view it as part of [3:03] your service, to tell the story of the investigations you led? [3:07] Yeah. Well, you know, I was a career prosecutor. I worked in the Justice Department and other [3:11] prosecutors' offices for near on 30 years. And I don't know if your viewers know this, but I work [3:17] in Republican and Democratic administrations over and over. I was the acting U.S. attorney in the first [3:24] Trump administration in Nashville, Tennessee. And that administration pointed me to a position [3:30] running a war crimes tribunal for the State Department. So I have investigated cases focusing [3:36] on the facts and law throughout my career. We did this case the same way, under the same standards. [3:42] And, you know, the thing that's, I think, important for your viewers to know is those standards are not [3:47] meant to change from one administration to the next. And in my experience, until now, they haven't. [3:52] And so, you know, I think we are facing an attack on the rule of law that is different in kind and scope [4:00] to anything I've seen in my lifetime. And one of the reasons I wanted to be with you here today [4:07] in advance of the Fourth of July, celebrating the birth of a country that we all love, is to celebrate [4:13] the public servants who do this work, the people I spent my career working shoulder-to-shoulder with. [4:19] I loved being a prosecutor, and part of it was I loved being around these sort of people. [4:24] And it angers me to see them victimized, to see them demonized for doing their jobs. [4:31] I think it's really important that we stand up for them and let them know that there are a lot of [4:37] people out there who back them and who are with them. And it's not just the people who've been [4:43] targeted and fired for no reason for doing their jobs. It's also the people still in the Justice [4:48] Department today. There are a lot of good career prosecutors who right now are working under [4:54] incredibly difficult circumstances, and they're still trying to do the right thing. And these are [5:00] not self-promoters. These are not people who are going to go out and, you know, crow about their [5:05] achievements. We need to hold them up and celebrate them because they're part of what [5:10] makes this country great. [5:10] Some of the agents, FBI agents that work for you, have been savaged by Donald Trump and [5:19] Kash Patel. At least one agent talked about being fired while he was taking care of his very, [5:27] very sick wife. What did you expect to happen to these agents? And do you regret putting any of [5:35] them in that position? I feel terrible about what has happened to them. If there's one thing I've [5:41] spent my time on since leaving my work as special counsel is doing what I can to help and support [5:47] them. The individual you're talking about, he was nursing his wife who was dying of cancer, [5:55] and they fired him shortly after she died. I went to the funeral. That funeral was filled [6:01] with heroes, public servants on both families. And I just can't believe that if people knew the [6:07] character of these people I worked with, that they could ever stand for the demonizing that's [6:13] happened to them. It's just beyond anything I can understand. [6:16] And my sense from my limited exposure to people in DOJ and the FBI from my time in government is they [6:22] don't really want to go do other things. They want this to be their life's work, protecting the [6:27] country's national security. Will you talk a little bit about the price people have paid who [6:33] have been purged for political purposes? Yeah, I mean, you know, a lot of the agents and prosecutors [6:38] I've worked with, and to be clear, not just in the special counsel's office, but throughout my career [6:43] in a bunch of different positions I've had in the Justice Department, this is the culmination of what [6:47] they wanted to do. It's why they went to law school, and it's their way of serving our country. [6:52] And we've seen so many times in these retribution cases where prosecutors wouldn't be a part of it. [6:58] You know, prosecutors in Minnesota who are like, I'm not going to investigate the family member of [7:02] a shooting victim. I'm not doing that. Prosecutors who wouldn't go through with retribution prosecutions. [7:10] And those people give up a lot. This is their whole career. A lot of them, you know, this isn't a [7:15] lucrative sort of profession for a lawyer in terms of what you could do in private practice. [7:19] They have to support their families. And one thing I have hope about is I think the traditions [7:26] in the department, the people that draw are so strong that we're going to have to rehabilitate [7:31] the department for sure. But there's a lot of people still there, still in place, wanting to do [7:36] the right thing, wanting to follow the facts in the law, not be a part of any retribution campaign. [7:42] And I think for me, one of the things I see as I go around and talk to folks, and I try to travel [7:47] around the country a lot and see different people and talk to different perspectives about [7:51] this, is that those people, it really matters to them if they know they're being supported. [7:59] Part of this campaign is to make people feel like isolated and feel like they don't have [8:03] people backing them up. And so I just think it's really important. I want to express my [8:08] support. I think everybody else should express their support. It's not, it's something with [8:13] meaning and it's also something that matters. [8:15] I mean, Chris Wray was the director of the FBI when the FBI agents that you're talking [8:19] about went to work for you. He said nothing. Why? [8:22] You know, I can't really comment on other people's choices. I would say... [8:26] Would it help? [8:27] Well, I think my perspective on this is that in the moment we're in, which is a pretty dire [8:32] moment, right, what we're facing, that we should be uplifting the people who are doing [8:36] the right thing. And I'll give you an example from my life. I resign as special counsel. [8:42] I know I need to get a lawyer because the president has said he wants to jail me for [8:47] doing my job. And so I retain lawyers, Covington and Berlin. As soon as that becomes public, [8:54] the president and the Justice Department target that law firm. And they do it because they [8:58] don't want me to have counsel. They don't want to have anyone represent me. And what happened [9:04] next was the very day that happened, Nicole, the lawyers at the firm called me up and said, [9:09] Jack, don't worry about it. We're there for you. They did not blink for a second. And as you [9:15] know, that's very different than how some other law firms behaved. I think we should [9:20] focus on things like that and separating a firm like Covington and Berlin from other [9:24] ones that didn't show courage to come forward. [9:26] Well, right. The ones that fought also have batted a thousand in the courts. I think Judge [9:31] Beryl Howell described those executive orders as giving her chills, chilling her to the bone. [9:35] But some of the giant law firms that were so central in our politics in the first Trump [9:40] term didn't just capitulate to Trump. They're now working for Trump's Justice Department, [9:44] firms like Paul Weiss and others. What do you make of the damage they're doing to our [9:49] democracy at a moment you describe as dire? [9:51] Yeah, well, I think one of the problems, I mean, there's several layers, right? One of [9:55] the problems right today, besides the retribution prosecutions, is that the Justice Department [10:02] can't do its job, right? If you go to court, well, if you go to court and the judges don't [10:07] trust you, you can't do the basic things that you need to do to represent the American people [10:12] in court. And we have seen judges across the country say they can't trust prosecutors [10:18] anymore. And that has such a cascading effect on any sort of case. And, you know, I can't [10:25] count how many opinions. But one opinion like that in my career would have been seismic. [10:30] People could not would not know what to do if a court said, you know, trust that's been [10:36] built over generations has been lost in days. Right. And that's happening every day. And so regardless [10:41] of what you think politically, they're just not effective at doing their job anymore. [10:45] They've jettisoned expertise. Right. And so we have a situation where we've got rid of [10:52] people who know how to protect our national security. And we think that that's somehow [10:57] not going to have an effect on our national security. You know, an example I can give you [11:02] Brian Driscoll. I don't know if you know who he is. He was the great video at the beginning [11:07] to kind of rally the troops that seemed from the outside. Yeah. I mean, he's a folk hero [11:12] in the FBI. If you were casting for a hero, that's what they look like. Right. And just [11:19] for your viewers, this is a guy, career agent, you know, mob investigator, SWAT team, hostage [11:25] rescue, served overseas, Medal of Value, bravery medals, all these things, and an expert in [11:32] counterintelligence. They got rid of him because he stood up for agents who were being targeted [11:37] improperly. You can't tell me, you cannot tell me our country is as safe as it was when [11:43] people like that are being let go and fired for no reason.